Where have all the minivans gone?

"FlipperB" (flipperb) 04/15/2019 at 13:47 • Filed to: None

0

63

My wife’s Nissan Quest has been a mostly reliable, super-practical minivan. Yesterday, we went to the local auto show to look at what might replace it. There are basically three options left for minivan shoppers:

C hrysler Pacifica

Honda Odyssey

Kia Sedona

Sure, Toyota still has the Sienn a but it’s a really old design. And I believe you can still buy a Dodge Caravan, but it’s been superseded by the Pacifica. And much as I’d love to throw the Ford Transit Co nnect in the mix , who are we kidding?

To paraphrase a surprisingly brilliant comment by a Nissan rep at the auto show:

Everyone wants SUVs now. The only people who want minivans are people who’ve owned minivans and seen how practical they are.

Spanfeller is a twat > FlipperB 04/15/2019 at 14:02

0

Well, I’m biased, but get the Kia

412GTI > FlipperB 04/15/2019 at 14:05

0

Yep that quote sums it up. 

Deltyn drives a meh car > FlipperB 04/15/2019 at 14:05

3

Minivans have been the butt of too many jokes so everyone thinks they’re too cool for one these days. Even if they know that’s what best suits their family. 

Nibby > FlipperB 04/15/2019 at 14:07

5

ford aerostar

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > FlipperB 04/15/2019 at 14:07

1

Just sayin, Ford MF Flex. 365 HP AWD family hauler. 

wafflesnfalafel > FlipperB 04/15/2019 at 14:07

1

those Hondas sound cool straightpiped...

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > FlipperB 04/15/2019 at 14:07

0

I would rather have my toenails pulled off my feet and have to walk barefoot every day to work than drive a minivan.

This is the hate that millions have for the damn things. 

Chuckles > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 04/15/2019 at 14:09

13

Where did the minivan hurt you?

FlipperB > Spanfeller is a twat 04/15/2019 at 14:10

0

We’ve had good experiences owning Kias and Hyundais before. It’s on the list for sure.

TahoeSTi > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 04/15/2019 at 14:12

8

Funny I feel that way about CUVs....but not minivans becuase they are useful....hell most can out tow any CUV and many suvs.

BigBlock440 > FlipperB 04/15/2019 at 14:12

7

And I believe you can still buy a Dodge Caravan, 

Not only can you still buy it, it’s the #1 selling minivan.

Also, you forgot the Model X, but it’s over 3x the price of the rest of the group, so I understand excluding it.

JustAnotherG6 > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 04/15/2019 at 14:13

4

I said that about Saturns back in the day... I’ve owned two since then.

I too said that about Minivans.. and currently we are well into our second one.

I have said the same thing about Wranglers... and now I’m tempted by the Gladiator.

I have come to the conclusion that I need to stop saying stupid shit regarding ‘never’.

OPPOsaurus WRX > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 04/15/2019 at 14:13

0

this is the answer.  

dogisbadob > FlipperB 04/15/2019 at 14:13

2

There is nothing wrong with the Sienna. Toyota makes the best cars, and the Sienna is based on the Camry which is known for being a good car with no problems :o)

I do miss the 4-cylinder Sienna mainly because transverse V6's are EVIL and IMPOSSIBLE to work on!

Chrysler and Honda have a history of transmission problems with their minivans. That is another reason people don’t like them!

So if you insist on hating on Toyota, the Kia Sedona is easily the second choice.

There is nothing wrong with the Transit Connect, even though I wish the big sunroof they offered wasn’t a fixed glass.If they offered a big sunroof that actually opens, it would be the BEST!!! Plus, it comes with a 4-cylinder engine that’s better on gas, and now they even have a diesel opti on!!!!!!

One more you forgot: the Mercedes Metris!

FlipperB > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 04/15/2019 at 14:15

5

I’ll readily admit: We’re the target market. Kids, sports, road trips, grandparent visits, Costco runs...

They are practical AF.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > FlipperB 04/15/2019 at 14:16

3

I think of it as the reaction to them being the aversion folks tend to have to driving the car their parents had. The folks having kids today probably rode around in Mom’s minivan of their formative years. I equate it to my parent’s attraction to minvans in the early 90's because they loathed the idea of owning a wagon. Beyond being very good at what they did, t he minivan was the modern  alternative to the station wagon they grew up riding around in, and no one wants to have their parent’s car.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > OPPOsaurus WRX 04/15/2019 at 14:16

0

Ford Flex, the Gentleman's Choice

FlipperB > BigBlock440 04/15/2019 at 14:17

0

Gonna guess the sales figures include fleet sales.

Model X would be outstanding; my daily is a Model S, but I had to wait for it to lose half its value and buy used... 

HondoyotaE38: A Japanese and German Collab...wait a minute > FlipperB 04/15/2019 at 14:20

0

Well mine's at the dealer awaiting heavy repairs as it's been since Thursday soooo

BigBlock440 > FlipperB 04/15/2019 at 14:20

3

I’m sure it does, but it’s also the cheapest in the market which helps quite a bit too.

i86hotdogs > JustAnotherG6 04/15/2019 at 14:24

7

Sounds like whenever you condemn a vehicle you end up owning one.

“I’ll never drive a manual scat pack widebody in F8 green”

Chariotoflove > FlipperB 04/15/2019 at 14:24

0

We looked carefully at all the options and ended up with the Sedona.  We are glad we did.

JustAnotherG6 > i86hotdogs 04/15/2019 at 14:26

0

Now there’s a thought...

i86hotdogs > dogisbadob 04/15/2019 at 14:27

3

Sienna is the only minivan in its class to offer AWD as well. So don’t rule the Sienna out yet. It may be old...but so is the Caravan...its parts are still made on 15 year old lines. They use machines by companies who are either bought out or out of business.

TC is my choice. But....I am biased #SHOVan

i86hotdogs > Nibby 04/15/2019 at 14:28

2

with t he manual!!

i86hotdogs > JustAnotherG6 04/15/2019 at 14:29

0

How quick does the turnaround happen? Days? Months? Years?!

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > FlipperB 04/15/2019 at 14:29

1

And I’m not the target market (single, no children to the best of my knowledge, commutes 2 miles, doesn’t road trip or visit relatives, etc.) and yet I love minivans. The Mazda5 that I daily is my third, and I don’t plan on buying any other kind of vehicle if possible (well, maybe a wagon... )

JustAnotherG6 > i86hotdogs 04/15/2019 at 14:31

0

T ypically, years. Just my luck they will likely still be mak ing them in 5-10... maybe not the manual, but still.

Shift24 > FlipperB 04/15/2019 at 14:31

0

Its because people like/want this and not that. Mini Vans were great in the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s but have totally dropped off since . I feel like Chrysler has only continued with the Pacifica just because they started the trend.

facw > FlipperB 04/15/2019 at 14:33

0

They only list the taxi and work van specs, but I imagine there’s probably some way to get a passenger spec Nissan NV200 (Chevy City Express has been discontinued), though that would be in the same class as the Transit Connect.

I’d be tempted to call the Mercedes Metris a minivan as well (you could make an argument it’s a full sized van, but especially with the larger Sprinter around, it seems a bit mini) , though again, it’s not targeting your typical family.

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > FlipperB 04/15/2019 at 14:34

1

A CPO Pacifica is where it’s at. Half price and still a great vehicle.

We had bought this one new.  As they were just released when we were in the market.  It’s been a great kid hauler for us.  

MoreGravelPlease > FlipperB 04/15/2019 at 14:35

0

“The only people who want minivans are people who’ve owned minivans and seen how practical they are.”

This is me. Our ‘09 Sedona has ~163K on the clock and runs like a top. It’s a heavy beast that likes to eat tires/brakes, but outside of consumables, the only repair I’ve had to do is replacing the hose between the air-filter box and the intake manifold. It was cracked, leaking air and tripping a lean code.

We’ll eventually replace it with another minivan, I don’t know which yet. Maybe the Pacifica Hybrid.

Under_Score > FlipperB 04/15/2019 at 14:44

0

I’m 6’5” with a 36” inseam and I fit fine in all three rows of a Pathfinder. The problem is that a lot of these vans are huge, especially when you can get their crossover equivalents that are shorter. 

BaconSandwich is tasty. > FlipperB 04/15/2019 at 14:44

0

I've been keeping my eye on used Model Xes, but prices here are still astronomically high.

Jordan > FlipperB 04/15/2019 at 14:51

0

A used Mercedes E Class is still an option. Comes with rear-facing 3rd-row seating.

i86hotdogs > JustAnotherG6 04/15/2019 at 14:59

1

By then a used one will be sitting at a used car lot on 8 mile for $16k. Came across a M agnum SRT at one of those sketchy car lots once. 89,xxx miles for $7,500. Too good to be true right? Guy had no idea of the car’s history . Had the check e n gi ne light on. Had a lot of electrical gremlins too (radio wouldn’t work, power seats didn’t work). I sometimes wish I bought the lemon for the powertrain alone.

Future Heap Owner > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 04/15/2019 at 14:59

5

Yeah, I can’t wait for 20-30 years from now when SUVs/crossovers are the terminally uncool vehicle class and wagons make a comeback.

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > FlipperB 04/15/2019 at 15:01

0

So are cargo shorts, but I also wouldn’t be caught dead in those, either. 

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > Chuckles 04/15/2019 at 15:02

1

My mom had a Windstar, so we got fucked in the (tie rod) end. 

Chuckles > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 04/15/2019 at 15:13

1

I grew up with a Voyager and then a Caravan. My teen years were mostly spent driving minivans with 5 or 6 friends in the back. I would absolutely drive one again if I was in the market for something with more space.

deekster_caddy > FlipperB 04/15/2019 at 15:49

1

We’ve always been “against” minivans, but with aging parents who don’t want to climb into an SUV and needing more seats than our old wagon, we went minivan last year and it’s been great. Pacifica plug-in. Great fuel economy, even when not plugged in it gets 30 MPG.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > dogisbadob 04/15/2019 at 16:16

2

Chrysler hasn’t had real transmission issues since the early 2000s. The updated 6-speeds are very hardy units capable of 200k with zero maintenance. Hell, even the “bad” transmissions were only bad because people either:

A. Didn’t maintain them at all

B. Used the wrong fluid causing their early demise.

My biggest complain with the TC is it’s lack of a V6 option. I honestly think it would see better real world mileage from an NA V6.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 04/15/2019 at 16:16

1

The good old sliderless minivan.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 04/15/2019 at 16:17

0

YES!

So I’m going to buy a higher riding, less useful, uglier minivan instead.

Signed,

Every CUV buyer.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > FlipperB 04/15/2019 at 16:18

0

Honestly the Grand Caravan is still the best bang for your buck minivan available.

bhtooefr > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 04/15/2019 at 16:51

0

It’s not *that* big - I suspect it’d be fine with a good modern 2.5 4-cylinder, and any more would run into pumping loss issues (unless you spin it real slow with an eleventy billion gear transmission).

Atkinsonizing such an engine and pairing it with a good hybrid system could help even more.

liam > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 04/15/2019 at 17:14

0

Open rear door. Slide in 4'x8' sheet of ply etc. Close door, take home. Or Open rear door, fold king size mattress and slide in, close door, take home.

Unfold seats, sit 4 mostly comfortable adults, and 3 moderately uncomfortable adults.

I liked my Highlander a bit better, but it couldn’t do any of those 3 things. Or many others.

It comes down to working out if the car is the tool.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > bhtooefr 04/15/2019 at 17:16

0

If they had a V6 option I would buy one. The 4 cyl is “ok” for normal use, but it runs out of breathe around 70 mph, which means highway passing is a no-go. A v6 would likely net the same mileage while performing infinitely better.

bhtooefr > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 04/15/2019 at 17:29

0

Note that I said a good modern 2.5 (although 170 hp running out of breath at 70 tells me there’s aerodynamic issues with the design) - think something like the Toyota A25A-FKS (not exactly that engine, that would never happen, but something like it).

And you wouldn’t want to go too big on the NA V6 - 3.3 liters would be absolutely huge for a vehicle that size IMO, and that’s the smallest NA V6 that Ford currently has. Taking the turbos off of a Nano would probably be the best bet for a NA V6 for that.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > FlipperB 04/15/2019 at 17:38

0

There’s also a Mercedes Metris...

https://www.mercedes-benz-vans.ca/en/metris/passenger-van

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 04/15/2019 at 17:46

1

I’ll take the minivan and keep my toenails and shoes.

Victorinoo > FlipperB 04/15/2019 at 17:52

0

I would buy the sienna even if it were a 5 generation old design being sold as new. The engine and trans are powerful and it will last for ever. The interior will outlast any of the competition. Parts are plentiful, especially with that 2grfe. Go with the Toyota you will not be disappointed.

ranwhenparked > FlipperB 04/15/2019 at 19:27

0

Definitely, Caravans are extremely popular for traveling sales reps who carry lots of stuff, along with rental car companies and after school shuttles for day care centers and the like.

But, they do still rack up a decent number of private sales, since it is still an extremely practical vehicle for very little money. If you need something that can carry 7 people comfortably and efficiently and aren’t concerned about having the newest and flashiest design on the block, you can do worse. 

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 04/15/2019 at 19:37

0

Windstar? Well, there’s your problem. I had one that I bought for a dollar, and even then I think I overpaid. My absolute least favorite car, and that includes the one that caught on fire. Rolling mediocrity at its finest, with zero redeeming qualities, totally uninspiring to drive  and a complete PITA to work on.

If the Windscar is your only basis for hating minivans I can completely understand your position, but I assure you that there have been better minivans before and after that worthless hunk of scrap iron.

Ron > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 04/15/2019 at 20:55

1

Nice :) I cant tell you ho w many suv`s are flat embarrassed when my 300hp minivan blows them of the line lmao

Jaboneyjoe > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 04/15/2019 at 20:58

0

I've got the mini Flex...original Scion Xb...too practical to be continued apparently...too bad cuz it's reliable and roomy plus cheap to keep!

Jaboneyjoe > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 04/15/2019 at 21:02

0

Are they the same millions that voted for Hillary???

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Ron 04/16/2019 at 06:56

0

Last time I had mine on the strip it ran a 15.2 sec quarter:

Figured that wasn’t bad for a 25 yo minivan on 27" AT tires....

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > bhtooefr 04/16/2019 at 07:08

0

IMO, 3.3L would be the sweet spot for a vehicle it’s size/weight. Their Duratec 3.3L would be a great combo for this van. Hell, even the 3.7 would be a decent match, p lenty of power, with plenty of low end grunt to get it’s heavy minivan ass moving.

It’s a minivan, minivans are best served by low revving/torquey V6s, they have no need for a rev happy engine, and an NA 4 cylinder is always going to be sluggish/working.

Not sure how the Toyota engine would be any better, it puts down identical specs to the 2.5 Duratec that currently powers them? Just give it a proper NA V6 with tons of low end torque and it’ll be a seller.

bhtooefr > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 04/16/2019 at 07:51

0

For the current Transit Connect:

For the A25A-FKS in a similarly-sized application (the RAV4):

So, more torque, and quite a bit more power. (And then of course there’s the hybrid with the A25A-FXS, which has 219 system horsepower. And in the urban delivery role that many Transit Connects are in, I’d expect really good results.)

Basically, if you apply the 2.0's technology to the 2.5, then you’ll be close to the A25A-FKS. And, realistically, you could go for lower RPM cams to get the 2.5's torque curve shifted down in its rev range to improve efficiency. There’s also room to do things with the transmission to keep the engine at peak efficiency (note that this is part of why hybrids work so well - if they’re power split, they get the CVT effect with less lag than a true CVT).

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > bhtooefr 04/16/2019 at 10:10

0

And the new model makes the issue even worse. They dropped the 2.5L Duratec, which made more power/torque in favor of an even smaller/ less power engine. The Duratec also had the advantage of a wider torque curve coming in at more useful rpms.

That being said, a decent V6 with a broad torque curve around 3500 rpms would still be the best option and make the TC a much more valid option as “lack of power” is one of the biggest complaints I hear about them.

bhtooefr > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 04/16/2019 at 11:06

0

Lack of perceived power at those power levels basically means either the aerodynamics are that bad, or the transmission is that bad, though.

Also, I really wonder how a V6 would package in the nose of that - I’m guessing you’d have to use a VR6 (poor emissions performance due to the wedge-shaped combustion chamber ), or fall back to an inline-5, to get much more displacement in there.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > bhtooefr 04/16/2019 at 12:09

0

It feels slow due to lack of low end torque, combined with an almost 4,000 lb curb weight. I’m sorry, but 169 hp/167 ft-lbs ( all coming in above 4k rpms ) carrying 4000 lbs is going to feel slow regardless.  

The trans tuning actually feels quite respectable and I would hope the aero on it is better than my old Caravan which does just fine with 3 less gears and almost 30 less hp. The main reason my van for example feels fine is the engine’s torque, which is over a wide rpm range. T he fact that it’s carrying almost 1000lbs less weight also helps.

Given the openness of the engine bay, I really don’t see any issue with fitting a decent V6 in. They could always make a decent SOHC V6 for use in them to save space. Then again that would require them to actually invest in a decent vehicle instead of just saying “oh well we sell a minivan, but no one buys it....”